In this special episode, Vivian Forssman of Royal Roads University interviews Strategic Play Founder and doctoral student Jacqueline Lloyd Smith. Gain a deeper understanding of how play—using 3D tabletop models—can be highly useful to bulletproof any strategy, especially when the stakes are high in the face of impending disaster.
Read the Transcript!
Vivian Forssman:
Hi, I'm Vivian Forssmann from the Resilience by Design Lab at Royal Roads University. And I'm delighted to today be interviewing an expert in games and play, Jacquie Lloyd Smith. Jacquie and I had such a great conversation recently that we felt we wanted to record this to share more widely. So my background is working with the Resilience by Design Lab for the last seven or eight years.
I work with Dr. Robin Cox, who basically established this lab 15 years ago or so ⁓ to develop capacity with both youth and working professionals as it relates to their responsibilities in recovery from a climate disaster and more recently in planning for climate disasters. And that really is the whole business of climate change adaptation. I'm going to turn it over to Jacquie to introduce herself.
Jacquie:
All right, well, thank you. Thank you so much for having me. ⁓ My name is Jacqueline Lloyd-Smith and I go by Jacquie. And ⁓ my background is in art and play therapy. ⁓ I have also got a master's degree in conflict analysis and management and an MBA. ⁓ Now I'm doing a doctorate in play.
So our company is called Strategic Play because we use play in everything we do and we focus on ⁓ working with complexity and with any kind of a problem that people just don't have an easy answer to, ⁓ we're applying the methods of play.
Vivian Forssman:
Thank you, Jacquie. And wonderful to get to know you, given that we both work and play sometimes through Royal Roads University. For the past 15 years or so, as I've mentioned, Resilience by Design Lab has been focused on climate adaptation capacity building. Initially, we worked with youth who had experienced disasters. And more recently, in the past seven years, we've been funded by both federal and provincial governments to build up
Jacquie:
Okay.
Vivian Forssman:
the skills of Canadians as it relates to climate-related disasters. So we work with engineers, accountants, landscape architects, various people that work in local governments. The products that the Resilience by Design Lab has developed include many climate-focused courses, micro-credentials and academic programs. So for example, right now, if you go to Royal Roads Professional & Continuing Studies, you will see about 20
climate-related courses that we've been involved with either developing or bringing into the Royal Roads context. In addition, my colleague, Dr. Robin Cox, is the program head of the Master of Arts in Climate Action Leadership at Royal Roads University. And one of the most lasting things that we've developed is the Climate Action Competency Framework, which is used in various settings in local government and in academic settings across Canada.
For example, the University of Waterloo is currently using the Climate Action Competency Framework to rework their engineering curriculum so that it has a climate lens. So our courses and programs have resonated pretty well, but we're always a bit concerned about are we making the impact fast enough and deep enough to actually be the change we need to be in this very complex world of climate change.
Do the people that take our courses as individuals actually have the leadership chops to convey their learning and motivate others? Or are there other ways that we should be introducing and upskilling in this particular area ⁓ that has more impact? So that's why we started to explore the use of serious games as a climate action learning approach
where we could bring together a cohort of people who already live and work in the same geographical area. Because of course, climate change impact is very, very localized. The things that happen in Vancouver are very different than the things that happen in ⁓ Fort McMurray or in Kaslo. We all have very different situations in terms of climate impacts. So we know that we want to bring people together
to learn together and to try to make an impact together. And that's why we're exploring serious games. So Jacquie, why is play such a valuable way to learn about climate preparedness and other complex challenges?
Jacquie:
Okay, great. Great question. So play is the best way. Because it's most brain friendly ⁓ way that that we have our brain loves to play. We're hardwired to play. And in fact, the purpose of play is to prepare us for the unexpected. This is what neuroscience and neurobiology will tell you. And I think that using play in order to work on climate
preparedness is a perfect application.
Vivian Forssman:
Oh, thank you. I'm glad to know that we have a fit on this. So you've facilitated many serious games and tabletop strategies and adult play scenarios. Can you give us a few examples of who your clients are and what you've learned?
Jacquie:
Sure, so what we've learned is that this works. I think that's really important. We've got a great track record. We have wonderful case studies and testimonials from different clients that we've worked with. We've worked with everyone from Ernst & Young. We've worked at IKEA. We've worked at NASA. We've worked at the United States Air Force, Procter & Gamble, most — many municipalities around Canada and the US. We've worked with all three levels of government in the US and in Canada. it's pretty broad.
Vivian Forssman:
Well, it's great to hear that because that maps very closely to the market that we're dealing with. Obviously, we're not dealing with the US Air Force. And unfortunately, so many things with NASA seem to be going by the wayside. But what we do deal with is governments, both local governments, provincial governments, and federal governments, and Indigenous community governments. And the big thing that we've learned in this is that these governance issues, in fact, are one of the biggest challenges in dealing with climate preparedness. So your background in working with the various actors that you've just mentioned ⁓ very much aligns with what we're on about, if you will. So how would you recommend we build a scenario game that addresses community climate preparedness?
Jacquie:
Okay, so I think that ⁓ to start with, think that face-to-face hands on is probably one of the underpinnings that from our experience works really well. ⁓ When we think about how we get our hands involved and how we build things, ⁓ Seymour Papert who is the father of constructionism ⁓ and also Csikszentmihalyi, who is the theory behind flow. These are two of the theories that we're using continuously in the work that we do, and we find that they both work. People need to ⁓ be face-to-face, hands on, and immerse themselves in the learning so that they have skin in the game in whatever kind of activity we're doing, which it's usually a tabletop strategy in 3D.
So we're building models, we're testing scenarios, and we're testing them in a randomized way. Life is live, we don't know what's going to happen. And so all of the scenarios that you test need to be things that people have not yet thought about that are novel and unique because the brain loves things that are different. ⁓ And then what you're doing is you're looking to see what emerges. And then what you're, from there, you're looking for things like unintended consequences, what you could do, how you might do it.
You might want to play the past. You might want to play out the future. So in these kinds of hands-on intense games, you want to make it real so that it's an actual real scenario that they are worried about. We often will ask people what keeps you awake at night and we sometimes start there. ⁓ But I think that in a lab, we call them play labs, this is where we have the safety of the playroom where we can run through some of the things that are the most complicated. ⁓ Our brains work best if we can construct and deconstruct things and move things around and see the interconnections. ⁓ So if I was making a game, I would try to really make it specific to the people that are playing it and make it real about what is in it for them.
I then would make sure that whatever we did in this game, turned into something that they could take action on immediately implementable so that they see the purpose of it. They see how serious the work is so that it's not just engaging and fun, but that it actually has these big moments where they get all the ahas.
Vivian Forssman:
So that's really interesting and it maps quite closely, I think, to the steps that we're currently taking. But we're all very new in this, and that's why your expertise is so valuable. So how do you measure learning engagement and impact when people are learning in this kind of immersive participatory environment?
Jacquie:
Okay, well that's a really good question. How do you measure if anyone's learned anything? I think that the one thing that we see is people put their heart and souls into this once we, so everything's scaffolded. So I'll go back and say that everything we do, we scaffold each activity so that we can get people to this point of complexity. We don't jump right in at the most complex parts. They have to build it.
So they understand what they're building. And as you are building something, you are engaged in it because you made it. It's yours. It has your story attached to it. It's what you were thinking. It's what you want to share with others. So the level of engagement, we always tell people it's going to be 100%. It's also one of our ground rules. If you're in the room, you're building and you're engaged. It is a meeting leaning in, not a meeting leaning out. And so we don't really have to measure that part because you can see it. It's live and people are 100%. I think that the interesting thing that you really want to look at is the impact after. And so not only do we want to measure did they come up with an action plan, but also did their minds change. So we're looking at shifts in thinking, we're looking in shifts in perspectives, we want to make sure that people are listening to each other. It's not a game of consensus building; it's a game of understanding.
So we're listening to each person's story in order to get what we call group genius. We want to get smarter by doing this. And yeah, it's time consuming. It's not, you know, we've made a mess of things over a long period of time. And so now to dedicate time in order to unpack it and to try to get to a point where we're making change, that takes time and it takes focused, concentrated effort.
So we tell people when they're coming to these workshops, leave your cell phone at home. Leave your computer at home. We need you to have a real meeting, a face-to-face meeting where you are 100 % engaged.
Vivian Forssman:
It's interesting that you ⁓ reference that. ⁓ Robin Cox and I recently went to Calgary to participate in a game called the Adaptation Game, which is a very interesting game. And at first, we were interested in using it for this particular application. It's probably better for more general community consumption rather than for working professionals. But as we entered the room, there was a basket. Put your cell phones in the basket.
Again, if we're going to be seriously engaging in this kind of stuff, we don't want to be distracted. Well, Jacquie, thanks so much for your valuable perspective on this. And I just think it's fantastic that I found you at Royal Roads University, while we are doing this kind of work through Royal Roads University. Just goes to show that you don't have to go far to find expertise. That right there at Hatley Castle, of all places, you can find depth of experience to inform your next project. So I look forward to getting to know you better and having your feedback on how we move through this thing we're calling now, Design a Disaster. And hopefully we'll be able to share with the audience that's listening to this podcast, further developments related to this game over the next several months. So thank you very much, Jacquie.
Jacquie:
You're so welcome. Thank you for having me.