Podcast Guest: Mike Campigotto
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Mike Campigotto is the President and a founding member of Safesight Exploration. A Graduate of the University of Waterloo’s Math and Computer Science program, Mike has had an extensive career in technology transformation. Over his 35 years in the digital industry Mike has participated in and championed the digital transformation of e-Government and e-Health around the globe. The past 6 years have been focused on innovation within the mining sector in support of the Digital Transformation. He has been a certified LEGO® SERIOUS PLAY® facilitator since 2015.
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[ Introduction ]
Welcome to the Strategic Play Podcast. Unlock Your creativity, expand your mind, and have good clean fun with Strategic Play founder and LEGO® Serious Play® Master Trainer, Jacquie Lloyd Smith, and creative force and curious mind, Mark Millhone.
Mark:
Hello, Jacquie.
Jacquie:
Hey, Mark. How are you?
Mark:
I'm really excited for the conversation that we're having. One thing which I hear an awful lot about is the challenge of organizational change, especially in industries that are successful enough.
Jacquie:
The biggest enemy of great is good. When things are good, people don't want to make any changes. But unfortunately, there are many corporations that are no longer with us because that was their mindset.
Mark:
I think that our guest today has a lot of insight on how to cross that hurdle. Mike Campigotto, who's the president and a founding member of SafeSight Exploration, can really talk about that in terms of the mining industry. The mining industry does very, very good. But that doesn't mean that there aren't opportunities for great.
What he brings to that challenge is being a graduate of the University of Waterloo’s Math and Computer Science Program. He has an extensive career in technology transformation. He's participated and championed the digital transformation of e-government and e-health around the globe. And for the past six years, he has been focused on innovation within the mining sector in support of its digital transformation. And he is, not coincidentally, a trained Lego Serious Play facilitator. We'll learn a lot about how he's applied that training to technology transfer in a very meaningful and powerful way.
Jacquie:
That's right, and one of my wonderful friends. I think one of the things that’s not in his bio is what a great leader he is. He comes from such an authentic and genuine place. So let's go say hello to him.
[ Interview ]
Mark:
Mike Campigotto, welcome to the Strategic Play Podcast.
Mike:
Thanks very much. Excited to be here.
Mark:
We're excited to have you. Jacquie, what was the prompt that you gave Mike for his model?
Jacquie:
Yes. Well, I asked Mike if he could take his Lego, and I know he has got lots, and build us a model that would tell us the story of his journey at SafeSight. And I might have said, maybe, explain what are some of the barriers or different things that you are experiencing with the company right now.
So over to you, Mike. What did you actually build?
Mike:
I basically built a model that's broken into two pieces or two distinct areas. The first area is a collection of people surrounding a center person. And the center person as holding a Lego brick as well as a baton full of innovative components, let's call it that. Just little bits and pieces of things.
And it really is a reflection of a collection of innovative young people that came together. And I sort of facilitated as both the gray hair in the room, from a business perspective, the creation of this innovation company centered around mining. And so we actually used Serious Play to define our company and our culture and our processes and sort of the initial technology we were going to build.
And it represents sort of this, what I would call, cognitive diversity. Because we brought engineers from five or six different disciplines together and we sort of played together to create a vision and a direction, using a couple Strategic Play approaches, everything from strategy to very dedicated problem solving.
And that's the first half of the model. And then as you move from the right hand side to the left hand side of the model, you'll see what look like hurdles or barriers, which is definitely a big part of the journey. We're a company that celebrates failure, as oddly as that may sound.
So we embrace when we fail and are energized by that to just try something different, try something new, because we're on sort of the leading edge of technology in an industry that has not embraced technology as fully as it could. And so we had those barriers to overcome: the creation of a new organization, the interaction of people—creative people, who are creative people, and they have their own personalities, et cetera.
And then there was barriers in the industry that we had to overcome, in terms of change resistance: That's not how we do it here. And you could look at the standard collection of reasons why people don't do things or the excuses they create for that, and we had that collection of change adoption challenges to overcome.
And we still have those to overcome, but the middle reflects those barriers. There is a standalone person amongst the barriers. So there are people in the industry who are bold and believers and are willing to try something new. Most of the executives I talk to tell me, “We want to be second to be first, not first to be first.” But there are those who are supporting us in really trying these leading-edge solutions. On the far left-hand side of the model, there's another group of people surrounding an obelisk, on top of which there's a flag and the flag has the letter Y on it. And it's meant to reflect the reason why, not the letter Y. And the people around that obelisk or that pedestal are essentially the industry leaders.
And the challenge that we have right now and the journey that we're on right now is really finding the why, helping them find their own why. When you come in with a why, it's a sales pitch and it's a difficult uphill battle when someone is already change resistant. Most of the leadership in the industry is of a certain vintage that is comfortable doing things the old way.
And so you really have to get them to come to a realization of what they need and why they need it. And right now they're circled around their own why, and we need to break that circle and help them find their why and understand that why they need something is the value proposition that matches the innovation that is just on the other side of those hurdles that we're working on.
So that is essentially the journey of this company. We're coming up on five years old, which is not old for an innovation organization. And the things we are creating did not exist before we existed. We have dreamed them up, 3D printed them, and put them into action. So we went from a collaborative—and I should say that much of our innovation, even as early as two days ago, is built out of quick Lego models we build to articulate to each other very quickly the vision we have in our head of something that doesn't exist. And then it moves through the standard development process and hopefully gets over the hurdles and into the hands of the executives that will then make mining safer and more productive across the globe. That's my model and my journey.
Jacquie:
Interesting. I'm going to ask you a couple of questions about the model, first. Is that you with the gray hair on the far side of the Y?
Mike:
That is just the old people in the industry.
Jacquie:
Oh, okay. So then, where are you?
Mike:
I'm the young guy with the baseball cap.
Jacquie:
Oh, okay.
[ laughter ]
Mike:
Of course. I’ve never acted my age my entire life.
Jacquie:
All right. Good. Now what is that in your hand that you've got?
Mike:
There's two things. One is the Lego brick because, from my perspective, the LSP techniques and processes and the training that we did together, I really apply in formulating and gathering these young people together to cultivate not only a shared vision, but the best of their ideas and how we would move forward. So Lego was a big piece of our—and Serious Play was a big piece of our inception.
Jacquie:
That's so fun. And you know what we should do? We should really talk about how we met, because that story leads to how you got yourself into this. So do you want to just maybe tell that story?
Mike:
Sure. I was retired and happy. And I was helping a number of entrepreneurs with their business startups in Northern Ontario, and a company that I was helping had wanted to thank me. I don't take any money or shares or anything like that. I just do it because I believe in giving people a hand up.
And anyway, they had said, “Look, we want to say thank you. So we'd like to invite you to a workshop that we've scheduled with this super dynamic trainer, and you're going to love it.” And I said, “Okay. Well what's it about?” And they said, “Well, it's facilitation.” And my response was, “No offense, I've been facilitating for 35 years. There's nothing you can teach me.” If that's not famous last words, I don't know what is.
[ laughter ]
Mike:
Anyway, they pressured and nattered at me and said, “Look, you’ve got to come.” And they said, “Well it uses Lego.” And I'm like, “Okay. Well that's not really selling me on anything. But just to stop bothering me, I will go.” And that's how Jacquie and I met. She was the facilitator. And I think it was after the first four hours, maybe less, that I went, “Oh crap. There is so much here that elevates the game of cultivating and capturing ideas from people that I had no idea of the power and the potential.” We—it was a five day course, I think four days, that we kind of spent together. Amazing. It was delivered effectively and just really transformed how I thought about helping people discover solutions to problems. And I quickly became an addict and got myself all LSP-ed up.
Jacquie:
Yes. And then we started hanging out and doing more things. And so how did you meet these people, this little group of guys with the idea? Can you tell us that story?
Mike:
Sure. Yes. So I had retired in 2010. But my behavior did not allow me to sit still, so I was consulting on the side. I was a management consultant in the IT industry and typically helped executives solve big problems , and I did that globally. And I was doing a little bit of it in Northern Ontario for mining companies.
And a number of executives pulled me aside and said, “We have this great idea. We want to start a company. And it's underground technology using drones, robots, and other components of the latest and greatest visual, battery, and aerial tech.” And they said, “Would you look at the idea?” I did, and I told them it was fabulous.
The tech industry, the components they were using, were in their infancy. And the applied technology potential, the curve was very high. So they were getting in at the right time. I said, “You guys should do this. God bless you. Go with God. Call me if you need help.” They called me a week later and said, “This is hard. We're not doing it.” And I said, “You’re kidding me.” They said to me, “If you find somebody else, the mining industry needs this desperately. They should do it.” And I thought, okay, well I’ll keep that in mind. If I come across somebody, I'll let them know.
At the same time, it was around Christmas and I was gathering with friends and family, and I was sitting in a room with my niece's fiancé, who was a mining engineer; my now son-in-law, who's a geologist; and two of my son's friends, who are electrical engineers and software engineers, who were all kind of interested in doing something. And I told them this story, and they were like, “’Well, we'll do it.” And so hence I said, “Okay. Well I will give you the gray hair support from a business perspective, capital, and all of the elements that you need that come with age. You guys are the horses to drive the ideas and actually have the technical background to build the solutions. And so we agreed over a dinner, and I think about a month later SafeSight was born. And once we had kind of put the structure around it, I brought them—dragged them into a room—and we started playing with Lego until we basically had a shared vision of not only what the company would do and how it would look, but actually the workflow of how it would run and who would run each component of the business. And we did that inside of probably a couple days, which again, I think is kind of amazing. If I was a consultant, I'd charge you two weeks to do that.
Jacquie:
Right
Mike:
So it was great. And that's how the company—it came into being.
Jacquie:
That's a great story. I love the fact that Lego had played such a big part in it. I mean, it is a great tool and it's just so fun to hear how you've applied it. One more question about the model. Who is the person that's standing by the barriers?
Mike:
That represents the very few mine operators in the industry who have not been afraid to be first to be first. It's a very small collection of very big companies who have really supported us. I was in a conversation with an executive, Tuesday night, who said, “Hey, I just want to thank you for the work you're doing, because companies like yours are really pushing the mining industry forward.”
And my response was, “I really appreciate the support and the encouragement. I'd appreciate your money more, because it's difficult, it's very costly, it's heavy capital. It's capital heavy in the technology industry. And there are a few who have been really supportive of us and kept us viable and given us the capital to reinvest and to go even further.
And if you compare our company to a rocket ship, we are just on the verge of breaking gravity. And you know how much energy and fuel gets burned, getting to that point. But once you break the crest of the atmosphere, then it's a lot easier to move around. And so I think we're there, and we're there because of the people in the middle of that model.
Jacquie:
Right. So let's talk a little bit—let's dig into that a bit. So the technology that you have, it's obviously indicated by the name SafeSight. It makes it safer for people who are in the mining industry to do their work. And it's basically--it's faster and it's better and it just brings so many benefits. It's like all listed on your website. Does that kind of grab it? Like it’s like—
Mike:
Yes. I mean I think—
Jacquie:
Drones and robots and—yes. Go ahead.
Mike:
Yes. I think that's sort of the intent is to make your site safer. What's really happened to us though, over the last five years, is we've transformed into an innovation hub. So now what we do, people come to us with problems and we basically dream up solutions to solve them.
And every solution we build is, at its core, meant to remove people from harm's way, hence making the site safer, and do things faster. So there is—our drone, for example. Traditional surveying underground takes 45 minutes per location. Our drone does it in a minute and 30 seconds, and the operator is nowhere near the area that is dangerous.
So we've removed the worker from harm's way. And we've accelerated the process from 45 minutes to about 1 minute and 30 seconds. By the time you actually get out of the truck, put the drone on the ground and fly, I think it's all a total of 10 minutes. So we've dramatically reduced that window, plus captured more data.
And the list—there's a, there's a long list of other benefits, but everything we do sort of centers around that. We've saved the person by keeping them out of danger. We've done things faster and ultimately created higher productivity and value.
Jacquie:
Okay. So all of that sounds amazing. So then I'm going to ask you, why isn't everybody buying it? I mean, I realize it’s expensive. But these guys have money. So other than money, when you look at the business landscape and you think about the fact that you have a solution, why do you think there's not more people in the middle with that lady that she looks like she's got a blue outfit on and wavy white hair. Why are there not more people there? Tell me a bit more about that.
Mike:
Yes. This has been my quest for I guess the last 12 months or so, is asking that question and trying to unearth what's at its roots. I think an easy answer is resistance to change. When I talk to other executives who are using our services, buying our equipment, they say it's just—they're old man. They don't want to change. They know the way things are done. They're not embracing technology. And so it's an uphill battle. That's a piece of it. You can definitely see there's a changing of the guard in the industry. Younger people are moving into positions of control, and those are the sites that are really calling us up and embracing what we've done.
However, I think there's a bigger issue at play here that's not as direct as, oh people just don't like change, which is: The understanding of the application of the technology and why for that particular site, that particular executive, or that company, why this makes sense. It's that value proposition where they need to see how it would apply and the direct benefits, without a salesperson trying to sell it to them. Because then it's not coming from an internal place. And I think really our challenge is getting into the circle and helping the client discover—sell it to themselves, for lack of a better term, why they can apply and how they can apply the technology. So we're doing everything we can to make people aware of the technology. But even with that, they're not taking the time to discover that they really need it.
Jacquie:
Right. so this is a story of tech transfer, right? You've got the tech and to get it to market, which you're in the market right now. But it's to get the market to act on the value proposition, which you are explaining that you're bringing. So what strategies do you have? Tell me about your ideas to get them to think about how perhaps this tech might work.
Mike:
So we've been doing a lot of the traditional approaches, I guess you would say. We've got YouTube pages and use cases and market strategies and social media channels and things like that. We're doing really cool podcasts, like this one, to really try and get broader reach. We just signed up for a four episode series we're going to be doing online, to get penetration. But I think that the strategy that I find the most enticing and with the greatest potential is leveraging a Lego Serious Play strategy that actually engages executives to use a Serious Play model to help them to understand, to know what they didn't know they needed, integrating both self-discovery and awareness of the technology.
This week, as an example, I had a former executive in the office with me from the mining industry for the week. And there was a lot of aha moments that were happening as we sat together and sort of spent the week together as he looked at our technology and what it can do. And it was a very hands-on—he was holding the tech, using the tech, and he was coming up with applications for the technology that we didn't even think about. And he was selling it to himself.
Now I can't have every executive in the mining sector spend the week with me, although he said you should do that. So we really believe that a strategy where we can bring people together, and I think that the—what I learned from the first time Jacquie and I met and she trained me, was that the huge value of a lot of Lego is the accelerated learning, the accelerated discovery. You're going to get senior people in a room, you don't have a lot of time and you need something that will help them self-discover very, very quickly. If you can blend that with, you didn't realize you had a problem or you didn't know that you knew this in the back of your mind, that this challenge existed, and then you present to them a series of options that might solve that problem that they just discovered, I think that then breaks down a lot of it. It breaks that circle and it answers the why question, but they're answering it for themselves.
And I think really that approach, which we haven't done yet, it's essentially in the formulation stages, as you know, Jacquie. And I think that to me has the highest potential of really becoming an engagement strategy that is almost everybody wins. The client becomes a more self-aware executive, in tune with where he can transform his organization. And we now have an educated consumer who could be one of our best buyers.
Jacquie:
I was also thinking too, that going through this process, they could even co-create with you. Because as you said, when they really do see it they come up with other uses, which you may not have considered.
Mark:
I mean, one thing which I was really struck when I was looking at the content on your site, was how three-dimensional it was. If people go to your site, and at the end of this podcast we'll direct people to go to where they can find you. It shows not just a drone going into a space, but also shows you a taste of the type of information that it's able to glean in that environment. And it's very immersive and it's very three-dimensional. Something which really stands out to me about Legos Serious Play as a thinking methodology, is the way that it supports you to think in multiple dimensions, to think spatially, to really think in three dimensions.
And I was wondering if that was part of how you came to think of the technology challenge in the mining space in a new way through your training in Lego Serious Play. And if that three-dimensional aspect is part of what's allowed you to communicate that to people in a new way so that they can see the solution that you're providing.
Mike:
Yes. I mean, I think that's a great insight and I think probably the answer is: Yes, it did help. And yes, we did use it. But I, to be honest with you, in more of an intuitive, not really thinking or realizing that, that's what we were doing. And that's what was occurring.
Like really from the perspective of, we are presented with a problem. And what I've learned is you want to accelerate the solution development to fail quickly, to then alter your solution rapidly to find the answer. If you can work in three dimensions and work in the tangible, and you can do that and think quickly, all of which a Serious Play model facilitates.
And at the end of the day, you physically hold the idea in your hand, which we then take—we have a stack of 3D printers running in the back of our office. In 24 hours, that part or that idea is a solution that you now can try out. And I think that all of those things are what exactly is needed to rapidly apply solutions to very complicated problems that the industry has thrown at us.
Jacquie:
I think the idea of being able to rapidly prototype and fail quickly has to be such a good mindset when you're talking about these kind of dollars. When you think about how much the equipment costs and how much even testing it might cost, to be able to make changes on the fly, which it sounds like you can do if you've got these 3D printers.
Mike:
Yes. And I think it's one of our—it's one of the attractions we have with a lot of the customers that we have in the industry in that because we're the manufacturer and the designer, there is nothing that—so we don't have a third party doing anything. We pretty much do it all here. We can rapidly adapt to meet the specific needs—I call it, configure, the solution to meet the needs that a particular site might throw at us. And because of the techniques, and I guess the culture we've developed over the last five years, we can do it fairly quickly.
And we've also tried to embrace—if you're in a Serious Play exercise, there are no wrong answers. There are no bad ideas. Everybody's voice gets heard. No model is incorrect. And so we embrace that, which allows people to think and try quicker without restriction. And I think our ability to do that and do it quickly has brought us a certain clientele that prefers to deal with us because they know that we're agile, we can move quickly, and that we're not afraid to change our configuration to meet the moment.
That has brought, as an example, we have a robot that climbs into a void before a worker does and checks the air and checks the stability of the environment. And in sort of working with a client, they said, “Hey. Could you create one of those, but that's meant to go to the top of this void and explode to create more room or take down dangerous rock or whatever. So now that's their idea. What do we do? We bring it back to the office and we start to model it and look for how we might deliver that.
Jacquie:
Very cool. So are you just in Ontario, in Canada? Where else have you—where are you going with this?
Mike:
So we're in Northern Ontario. And in Sudbury, which is about an hour and 10 minutes from North Bay, where we're located, there are dozens and dozens of mines. So we have a large sort of client base next door to us. But we are now expanding into South America and Indonesia. And we are working on a couple deals to deploy globally, to some of the larger industry players who want to apply our technology as a standard across their entire site. So we are on the cusp of, and that's I think when we'll really break gravity, so to speak. We're on the cusp of being a global organization.
Jacquie:
Great. So have Lego, will travel.
Mike:
Yes. In fact, today I was talking to our team saying, “Hey. We're about to have this volume. Next week we're going to do a Serious Play exercise to create the workflow that demonstrates we can produce high volume. And what I want to do is have each of the leads in each of the areas— manufacturing, quality control—create their vision of how their part of the organization will step up and deliver, in models of what obstacles they have to overcome. And that'll help us create a very quickly defined set of gaps that need to be revised before we start to produce high volumes of our tech.
Jacquie:
Excellent. It sounds like our design thinking—our Lego Serious Play Design Thinking course, which I'll have to tell you about later. But this whole idea of service design and kind of going along the flow to look for, does it actually work the way we think it's going to work? Or where are the problem spots that we could improve? And then getting in and rapid prototyping in each of those kind of gaps. So that's very cool that you're doing that.
Mike:
Yes. I can't stress enough how the rapid identification of whatever you're doing is so important because then you have the opportunity to very quickly understand whether you have a little work or a lot of work. As you might guess, most of the people in our organization are young. And many of them are very much into roleplaying, and D&D, and those kinds of games.
And we look at the mapping we're doing as a quest. So my proposition of folks is: The quest is to be able to produce a high amount of high quality technology in a very short period of time. And so we want to map out what that quest looks like and what dragons we’ll need to slay along the way to make it to the other side and to create a successful process. So I can't really see any other way you would do this than with a play concept and the rapid imagining that Lego facilitates.
Mark:
I love that journey metaphor that you bring forward, and it highlights a question that I was having when I was looking at your model. I noticed that there's two strong sort of vertical elements. On one side of the boundary there is like a cup, which contains in it some gears. And then on the other side of the boundary, there is a standard with why. Is there a story kind of going from one standard to the next? Or am I seeing a pattern there that maybe wasn't?
Mike:
Yes. I—it's exactly—the core of the model basically is on one end you can create great innovation. But if you don't get those you want to consume that innovation to understand their why, they will struggle to embrace your ideas and your technology. And I think our journey has been, we've figured out how to really imagine and create things very quickly. And we've, I think, converged to a team of people that are—I always tell people if NASA and Google had a baby, it would be us. They work quite well together, but it doesn't matter. If you don't capture the why flag, you don't win the game.
Jacquie:
The whole thing is so interesting. And I just love the way that you're taking this tech and taking the company, taking the business landscape, which I think that most people kind of listening to this can hear that there's an old way of doing it. And this is a big shift. I mean, this is— in many ways, this tech is a bit of a disruptor, but in a good way. I mean, safety first. But at the same time, it still means that people have to change how they're doing things. And so I love the fact that you're bringing in 3D thinking and you're bringing in Lego Serious Play to help people think that through, both internally and externally, so potential customers and also people that are on your team. Just sort of listening to the story makes me want to come and play with you. I think you're doing such cool stuff.
Mike:
Anytime.
Jacquie:
I have a question for you about the Playsonality that you took. I know that you took the assessment and then I sent one over to you to look at. So you had two. Which one did you end up thinking that resonated with you?
Mike:
I think from my perspective, the Maker really fits not only what I'm doing, but sort of my behavioral pattern over my lifetime. So I am the things that are described in there in terms of the builder and the fixer and the tinkerer. And that's really—and I think that's where my mojo comes from. And I think that's what's helping me drive a lot of the young people here to do the same, but in their designated field of comfort and passion.
Jacquie:
I was thinking about the Maker, too. And I know that you make sausages. And I know you make hot sauce, because my family here love your hot sauce.
Mike:
Thanks.
Jacquie:
So I know that you grow cool stuff and make neat stuff, which is also kind of like in that Maker category as well. It's hobbies, as well as at work.
Mike:
Yes, I think that's—I mean, I drive my wife a little bit crazy because there are so many things I make and do all at the same time. Tonight I will probably finish my prosciuttos and hang that in my cantina, so that next year it's ready for Christmas. So there's always something. There's always something up my sleeve.
Jacquie:
Yes. That's wonderful. Okay, so then my next question. Looking back at your childhood, do you remember a time when that playstyle would have been also relevant? Is there a time when you think back as a kid, like can you think about how the Maker style might have fit?
Mike:
Well, yes. I think that as far back as I can remember, I was using my father's tools and my father's shop. I think that my behavior then isn't any different from my behavior now. It's just that I have more money to buy cooler toys to play with.
[ Laughter ]
Jacquie:
That's a benefit of getting older, right?
Mike:
Exactly. I'm cashing in on surviving this long.
Jacquie:
And you don't have anyone telling you to put your stuff away or—well, maybe you do. Maybe Loretta is telling you to.
Mike:
Yes. Exactly.
Mark:
Well, one thing which I thought was just a really interesting juxtaposition of all the things we're talking about is your playstyle as a Maker and the entrepreneurial space. And I think that something which I would tend to expect is that people who are in an entrepreneurial play space, if you will, are oftentimes Adventurers or Contenders or Catalysts. And one thing which I find really interesting is that Maker sensibility expressing itself in such a creative way. And I can see the resonance there because you're working in such a physical realm. The things that you are creating, they have to have very specific engineering requirements. They have to be built to suit very specific challenges. And the sense that I have is that it's a very creative way of playing that you have, working with this team to bring forward these technologies and a level of insight that I'm imagining that you bring to the kind of people that you work with in that space.
Because I think that—a comment which I hear coming from people who work in highly engineer- focused workspaces is that oftentimes, really inspiring teams and connecting teams can be difficult. It seems like there's some novel things about your playstyle and the teams that you're building with such success that maybe you could bring some insights forward on that.
Mike:
Yes. I mean, you raised some points to trigger a few—I guess a few observations that maybe I should have mentioned earlier. But I think one of the things that my style and my history and my exposure to Serious Play has led to is I'm teaching engineers how to play.
We had engineers that were less playful that could really design a technically functioning solution. But there was no art to it. And I'm a big Disney guy. I'm a big Pixar guy, And I tell folks that I don't want engineers, I want Imagineers. And I think in the kind of industry we are in, it's not enough to have something that technically is functional. It needs to, in some ways, have an artistic component to it. My job is fantastic, because I get to dream stuff up, play with ideas in my head, and then feed it to our team to say: Make that happen and make it in a way that engages the artistic side of your brain, not just the mechanical side of your brain. And maybe that's where sort of my Maker style influences what we do.
I think we still have lots of opportunity to make our solutions more artistic and sleeker and more interesting looking, but I think the guys have done a great job so far. When I say it has to do these things and I want it to look and feel—literally, I've brought in pictures of Klingon Birds of War and Star Trek spaceships and says, “That. Make it like that. Do that. I don't care technically if it worked, but it has to be pretty like that.” So maybe that's where the connection is.
Jacquie:
I think the other part too that I should tell you, Mark, is that Mike—there was also a question about the Alchemist. So Maker, Alchemist, I think combined, you just heard him say that he loves Walt Disney and Pixar. And I think that storyteller is a big part of the visionary that we're hearing.
Mark:
I totally see that. Yes.
Jacquie:
So I think that the Alchemist/Maker, the combination of those two makes up Mike's unique playstyle. Because I also see Mike as a great storyteller and having that big vision and encouraging people. When I first talked to Mike a couple of weeks ago, he was saying, “I'm like Ted Lasso every day, trying to get my team together, trying to motivate them.”
So I do—I get the vibe of both of those playstyles and an interesting blend.
Mark:
Yes. And I—there was something that you said in your initial response about the question of: What role did you feel that Lego Serious Play had in just your ability to think about these challenges in a different way? And I offered some words around that and you said, “Oh, those are interesting words. But it really wasn't—it was more of an intuitive thing.”
Mike:
Yes.
Mark:
And I found that really, really striking from someone who is a C-suite person, in a larger organizational setting. There isn't a lot of space for intuition. And you've made that space with the thinking tools that you've brought to your team.
Mike:
Yes. Thanks. I think that in a lot of ways too, the group here is converging to that behavior. As leaders, even with your kids, they learn more from what you do than what you say. And I think our team here is beginning to trust their intuition and see that it's okay to take that leap of faith. And there are ways you can validate your imagination and what your intuition is telling you to sort of give you a bit of a safety net, by building something on a 3D printer or grabbing some bricks and throwing them together, that it's much more of a rewarding process when you're allowed to play that way.
Jacquie:
Great. Well, Mike. I always love having chats with you. This has been a great conversation and just wonderful to catch up with you and hear about where you're at and the success that you've had so far. And I am sure we're all going to be reading about all of this soon, because I think you're probably right. You are ready to launch that rocket ship.
Mike:
Well, the feeling is mutual. I always enjoy catching up with you, too. And I really am grateful for the opportunity to share sort of what we've done, how we've done it, and, and how Serious Play has really, I think, been—I don't think I would be here at this point with this approach if we hadn't crossed paths back in, what, 2012 or something? So many thanks.
Mark:
Thank you so much for that, Mike. For those who are listening, who would like to learn more about you and what you're up to, what's the best place for them to connect or learn about your work?
Mike:
Yes. They can go to our website. There's lots of information there. We also have a YouTube channel. If you just search safesightxp.com, you will find us. And we're on LinkedIn. I'm on LinkedIn and always love to share ideas and connect with people. And all of us have the opportunity to really broaden ourselves by doing that. So I'm always watching and listening and welcoming feedback and questions.
Mark:
Thanks, Mike. Be well, and until next time.
Mike:
All right. Thank you. You too.
Jacquie:
Thank you.
[ Conclusion ]
Mark:
What an interesting conversation. I really love how he has kept a space for intuition in what he does. I don't think that we recognize that in very technology and science heavy fields that there is a need for thinking tools that allow for intuition and for a corporate culture which supports trying things out, failing fast to succeed. And I think he's really doing that.
Jacquie:
We talk about these things. We talk about prototyping and testing and like you said, failing fast. But then to actually talk to somebody who is flying drones into mines and blowing things up, and to hear that, that's how they're doing it, through 3D modeling, through using Lego Serious Play, and how it can be applied if you have someone that's an intuitive, supportive, genuine leader like Mike.
Mark:
Completely.
Jacquie:
Great case study. Okay. So why don't we put a challenge out there to the listeners. If you're listening to this podcast and you've got some Lego and you would like to build a small model of, maybe a story that you have for tech transfer or change management, we'd love to hear it.
And if you are listening to this podcast in our community, just go ahead and make a post and we'd love to hear your story. Make sure you take some pictures of your Lego and post that too. If you're listening to this podcast and you are not in our community and you would like to send us a note or an email, please do so at hello@strategicplay.com. We would love to hear from you.
Mark:
Awesome. I can't wait for the next conversation.
Jacquie:
Talk to you soon.
Mark:
Talk to you soon.
Jacquie:
Ciao.
[ Outtakes ]
Mike:
I don't think I would be here if we hadn't crossed paths.
Jacquie:
No, you'd be doing some other crazy thing. Ask Loretta. I'm sure she'll say.
[ Laughter ]
Mike:
Yes, exactly. Yes.